<HTML><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10>Subj:	<B> Traveller-digest V1999 #1356</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3 PTSIZE=10></B><BR>
Date:	11/17/99 2:10:22 AM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest    Wednesday, November 17 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1356<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
[none]<BR>
Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
Re: Cultures<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1355<BR>
Lost Keith Supplements Arrives<BR>
Re: Traveller pronounciation guide<BR>
Re: That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
Re: Re : Riot Control Agents (was : Anti-Violence groups in the 3I), longish<BR>
Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I...<BR>
Re: Starship Disabling Weapons<BR>
Re: some thoughts about racing<BR>
Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
RE: Traveller pronounciation<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:47:00 EST<BR>
From: GypsyComet@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au typed:<BR>
<BR>
>>What iteration of Traveller do y'all want this thing in?<BR>
><BR>
>Wow! MT with deckplans, please! (although I'm sure many will want a T4 <BR>
version)<BR>
><BR>
>Of course, you'll have to the get the TML to decide exaclt how big the thing<BR>
>really is. Current votes are:<BR>
>     400t<BR>
>     1500t<BR>
>     20000t<BR>
<BR>
 If it's much bigger than the second figure, it doesn't get deckplans...<BR>
<BR>
Based on the size of the airlock, the bridge deck is NOT two decks high like <BR>
the windows suggest.  The change in wedge angle amidships is all wing (see <BR>
the shape of the hull at the aft firewall). A raw measurement of the ship <BR>
length versus the airlock pit gives a length of 60m. A 60m Needle is 300 <BR>
DTons; a 60m Wedge is 500 DTons. The hull is about four decks high at the <BR>
rear (again a raw measurement), and one deck or less at the nose.<BR>
<BR>
 Adding perspective to the picture doesn't really change the length, since <BR>
the base measurment is amidships. Perspective will lead to the nose being <BR>
deeper and the tail shallower than depicted, though. As mentioned before, <BR>
perspective and lighting oddities (follow the shadow line to the nose, then <BR>
compare the shadow on the tailfin to the lighting on the hull) make this <BR>
vessel hard to pin down completely. I'll do some sketching first...<BR>
<BR>
GC<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Mon, 15 Nov 1999 21:02:36 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: [none]<BR>
<BR>
Sonics: Yes, I meant specifically subsonics. Ultrasonics are definitely<BR>
thermal effects, and make for lousy ranged weapons. (ever seen how much<BR>
draw a sonar-oven uses? Yikes!)<BR>
<BR>
>> Another idea: Use a damper field to increase decay in the area of a group<BR>
>> of rioters.<BR>
>The most abundant radioactive isotope in a human is potassium-40 (which<BR>
>makes up 0.0118% of your body potassium or some 0.0157g in a 70kg male).<BR>
>	This contributes about 30 millirem per year to the average annual<BR>
>radiation exposure of 100 millirems.<BR>
>	Fizzing that off might do some damage.<BR>
><BR>
Don't forget that I mentioned the Area. (Oh, BTW, thanx for the commentary,<BR>
Robert). That includes the ground... Take for example the Fairbanks, Alaska<BR>
area... Local backgroiund rads are about 3x surface norms, due to the<BR>
(non-commercially viable) low-grade uranium deposits, which include the<BR>
gravel pits from which fairbanks road-paving gravels are drawn; In juneau<BR>
they use Jade.... Add that and the potasium, plus certain more stable<BR>
elements beginning to come unglued, and you can probably get a considerable<BR>
ammount of low-rate rads.... probably a good siege weapon...<BR>
<BR>
Hmm... a damper would be detectable with a geiger counter, wouldn't it? Use<BR>
it as a threat-effect weapon. Toss em a geiger counter with a transponder<BR>
and no controls. (Beeps it's coords based upon GPS)... then set the dampers<BR>
up to about 20% more decay rates.... And every so often, put a burst (from<BR>
a separate projector) near the tricked out geiger counter. Psych warfare...<BR>
and keep increasing the decay rates until they either go nuts from the<BR>
clicking, or realize the longer they wait the more dangeours the rad threat<BR>
will be.<BR>
<BR>
Another thought... what does all that potassium 40 decay into, and is it<BR>
used in any neurotransmitters?<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:25:39 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> On Mon, 15 Nov 1999 18:13:07 PST<BR>
> shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson) writes<BR>
><BR>
>>> It strikes me that there is very little that would attract tourists<BR>
>>> to the Marches.  There's the museum at Regina, but that is solitary<BR>
>>> entertainment and it's appeal could hardly be described as being<BR>
>>> "fun".  Apart from that, there is nothing that I would consider a<BR>
>>> "draw" for tourists.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Alas, you are projecting a rather recent cultural phenomenon into a<BR>
>>situation where it just plain *doesn't work*.<BR>
>><BR>
>>Tourism, of the sort you are thinking of is a creation of the railroad,<BR>
>>the steamship, and most especially the *airplane*.<BR>
><BR>
> <cheap shot><BR>
>  I'll be more careful what I'm thinking of now I know you're Zhodani.<BR>
> </cheap shot><BR>
><BR>
> I was only using my present day vacation to lead in to the topic and<BR>
> did not mean to imply that there were any parallels between that and<BR>
> tourism in Traveller. I too think that tourism works very differently<BR>
> in the Imperium. But just because it doesn't work the same way doesn't<BR>
> mean that it can't work at all.<BR>
<BR>
Quite true. I just jumped in "hard" to nip the incipient "Traveller is<BR>
the current world with starships" idea in the bud. <BR>
<BR>
>>You didn't get huge numbers of "average joe" tourists until<BR>
>>transportation was cheap AND IT WAS POSSIBLE TO MAKE THE TRIP IN NO<BR>
>>MORE THAN TWO WEEKS!<BR>
><BR>
> I agree with you that 2 week vacations won't work that way in Traveller.<BR>
> That doesn't mean that tourism *doesn't work*. Just that the same kind of<BR>
> vacation we're familiar with here will not lead to space tourism in the<BR>
> Traveller Universe.<BR>
><BR>
> However, tourism DOES happen. It's what luxury liners are built for.<BR>
> It's what safari ships are built for. It's what at least one of the<BR>
> megacorporations specialise in. It's in canon. There are published<BR>
> scenarios that have tourists and entertainers aboard cruise ships.<BR>
> The luxury liners aren't just there for business travellers or those<BR>
> who are migrating. They take tourists around the Imperium.<BR>
<BR>
And as I noted, the folks taking those luxur cruises aren't "Joe<BR>
Average", they'll be sigificantly higher "class" economically.<BR>
<BR>
> Heck, when you think about it, aren't all Travellers tourists?<BR>
<BR>
True enough, but most are either on a working passage, or *retired*. <BR>
<BR>
>>That last is the killer in Traveller. That means that you *can't* go<BR>
>>even *one* jump away for your vacation, because even with 2 weeks<BR>
>>vacation, it'd use up your entire vacation just getting there and back!<BR>
><BR>
> Only if your vacation is for 2 weeks. In my country 4 week vacations are<BR>
> the norm (we have it good). That would give sophonts time for 2 weeks stay<BR>
> at their destination as well as 2 weeks in jump. It makes it possible.<BR>
> But only if there is something worth the time and expense one jump away.<BR>
<BR>
> Space travel, while affordable to the masses, is still expensive. To my<BR>
> mind most sophonts would not holiday outsystem unless there was<BR>
> a real 'draw' to attract them. It certainly would not be a yearly event.<BR>
> Most "average joe" would find something closer to home to look at instead.<BR>
<BR>
Yep. And frankly, I think space travel is more expensive in *time*<BR>
rather than money. Anybody who has been cooped up with the kids in a<BR>
car on a vacation trip is going to think two and even three times about<BR>
spending *two weeks* in jump with their kids. And there's gonna be that<BR>
thought "what if we don't like <tourist attraction>"? That'll make the<BR>
week in jump on the way back *really* bad.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav: The players ship gets a family as passengers. The husband<BR>
figured it'd be *so* much cheaper buying passage on a "tramp" than on a<BR>
luxury liner. The kids will, of course, be bored stiff about 3 hours<BR>
out of port. The wife will be bored about a day later. And the ship's<BR>
Steward will be going *nuts* trying to keep them happy. The rest of the<BR>
crew will have to deal with bored kids trying to investigate<BR>
*everything*. <BR>
<BR>
For extra fun, after they deliver the family, have them encounter the<BR>
family coming *back* (father's budget wouldn't allow the to take the<BR>
liner back). Even if the players have a cargo going back to the world<BR>
they started from (funny how easy that cargo was to get :-) I bet<BR>
they'll lift without *any* passengers before they'll let *that* bunch<BR>
back on the ship!<BR>
<BR>
It may help to consider these well known families as the passengers in<BR>
question:<BR>
<BR>
The Bundie Family (Al, Peg and the kids)<BR>
The Simpson Family (Homer, Marges, Bart....)<BR>
The Addams Family (Gomez, Morticia, Pugsley, Wednesday)<BR>
<BR>
Any other suggestions?<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:43:24 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Cultures<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 02:58 PM 11/15/1999 PST, you wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>>Just keep two things in mind. The Earthship Ark main body is *wider*<BR>
>>than the Red Dwarf is *long*. Going with the Ellison figures of 30<BR>
>>mile diameter biospheres (the 3 mile figure is a bad joke), that makes<BR>
>>the main body around 25 miles on a side and hundreds of miles long. <BR>
><BR>
> Yes, but RD has Ace Rimmer.  Game, Set, Match.  Red Dwarf<BR>
<BR>
Fine, Doug. *You* get to tell Harlan that "his" starship was taken out<BR>
by Red Dwarf. I wanna watch. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:44:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> At 08:45 PM 1999 11 15 -0500, you wrote:<BR>
>>True. It's all to easy to have them told. "You must be thinking of some<BR>
>>*other* planet. We've always had the toy company there..."<BR>
>><BR>
>>For the "ultimate" in paranoia, have them go to a system they've been<BR>
>>to several (or better yet *many*) times before. And have the system be<BR>
>>different. Different star, different orbit and UPP for the mainworld.<BR>
>>To really rub it in, keep the name. And have all their library records<BR>
>>etc match the *new* system.<BR>
>><BR>
>>For extra points, make the "missing" system their home base. With the<BR>
>>"new" system having no records of them...<BR>
><BR>
> Interesting idea, but how would you replace one system with another?<BR>
> In my Supers game, the toy company building was a bit larger than the<BR>
> old Omnitech HQ building, so that the old building would fit inside<BR>
> the new one. The toy company building was, in fact, a shell that was<BR>
> placed overtop the old building.<BR>
><BR>
> Actually, I've thought of one way to pull it off, but it's a bit of<BR>
> a stretch: change the star maps in the computer system of the PCs. If<BR>
> they rely exclusively on the maps to find their way around, switching<BR>
> the old system and new on the map just might throw them for a curve...<BR>
<BR>
You aren't thinking "big" enough. Maybe they fell into an alternate<BR>
universe. Maybe they've annoyed Powers Man was Not Meant To Know. Maybe<BR>
they are the victims of a botched mindwipe.<BR>
<BR>
The second is sort of what I was thinking. We are talking *literally*<BR>
Cosmic Conspiracy here. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:49:14 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Sometimes, all one needs to induce paranoia in the players is a previous<BR>
> rep for that sort of thing. The last game I ran before my current GURPS<BR>
> Traveller was the paranoid Supers campaign I had run last year, with<BR>
> the same group of players.<BR>
<BR>
<snip><BR>
<BR>
> A way to use this in a game: have things happen in the background of=20<BR>
> wherever the players are, to make them suspect that maybe someone *is*<BR>
> out to get them. They take train from point A to point B on planet X;<BR>
> later that day, there's a big train wreck on planet X. The PCs visit a<BR>
> space station; after they leave, the station's reactor core goes critical<BR>
> and blows up, taking half the station with it.... Keep doing this, and<BR>
> it will have an effect on the players...<BR>
<BR>
Something *I* discovered is that in a long running campaign, it pays to<BR>
let the players brief new players on the "background" and "history" of<BR>
the campaign. You'll find that they'll have invented all sorts of<BR>
details that you never gave them, and linked things you never thought<BR>
of connecting.<BR>
<BR>
An example was this *elliptical* crater, partly filled with water in<BR>
the area the D&D players were campaigning in. They had visted it<BR>
*once*, in *daylight*. Yet I heard them tell new players about how the<BR>
pool glowed in the dark. Thus are myths created and legends born.<BR>
<BR>
Players are *always* "unconsciously" filling in details. And by letting<BR>
them brief newbies, you find out about these "fill ins". Then you can<BR>
either adopt them, or you can not them down and wait for a chance to<BR>
use them to trip up the players by having these assumptions prove<BR>
*wrong*. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 21:57:47 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
> <<snip>><BR>
>> <BR>
>> For a *slightly* less extreme problem, read Heinlein's "Puppet<BR>
>> Massters". Then transpose it to an out of the way world. Not only do<BR>
>> you have to stop this, you have to try to keep them from infecting any<BR>
>> one going offworld.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> In this case, the threat isn't enough to get the world nuked from<BR>
>> orbit. But it *is* enough to get a *strict* quarantine established.<BR>
><BR>
> Of course, if you want to get _deeply_ unpleasant, try combining the<BR>
> "flying fried eggs" from ST:TOS's "Operation: Annihilate" with<BR>
> Heinlein's _The Puppet Masters_.  Imagine a parasite that combines the<BR>
> slugs' total control of its victims with the Denevan parasites' lack of<BR>
> visually obvious signs of infection.  Don't forget to make sure that the<BR>
> parasites are immune to the agents used against them in the<BR>
> above-mentioned stories.  A kind-hearted referee will provide a way<BR>
> (that the PCs might be able to find) to kill the parasites, without<BR>
> killing the host.  OTOH, killing the host is the only way to be<BR>
> _sure_....<BR>
><BR>
> If _that_ doesn't get your players paranoid, they'll _never_ see the<BR>
> fnords, and you may as well give up on the project....<BR>
<BR>
And after their run-in with whatever variety of parasites, have them<BR>
run into a *good* symbiont. Say the cave critter from the F.Paul Wilson<BR>
story I can't recall the title of or the ones from Hal Clement's<BR>
"Needle" and "Through the Eye of a Needle". <BR>
<BR>
Now the "infected" player has to first, keep from panicking, and<BR>
second, once he understands what's going on, keep his buddies from<BR>
killing him!<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:01:31 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: How to do a gritty, X-Files-like scenario?<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Glenn St-Germain wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> A way to use this in a game: have things happen in the background of <BR>
> wherever the players are, to make them suspect that maybe someone *is*<BR>
> out to get them. They take train from point A to point B on planet X;<BR>
> later that day, there's a big train wreck on planet X. The PCs visit a<BR>
> space station; after they leave, the station's reactor core goes critical<BR>
> and blows up, taking half the station with it.... Keep doing this, and<BR>
> it will have an effect on the players...<BR>
>>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> PC's aren't the only ones who correlate data. As my players learned in<BR>
> my old superhero RPG, otherwise normal people can have unsettlingly<BR>
> good detective work skills. The players aren't the only ones who are going<BR>
> to notice the chain of disasters that are always one step behind the<BR>
> player characters. The PC's might be the always-missed target, but the<BR>
> first idea our NPC detective may come up with is that they are the<BR>
> cause.<BR>
><BR>
> It's hard to be a moving target while sitting in jail. Those prison guards<BR>
> won't be much protection against something that cracks space<BR>
> stations.<BR>
<BR>
Then there's always the "Dirty Pair" scenario. Kei & Yuri are a pair of<BR>
top notch law enforcement types. There's just this one *little*<BR>
problem. Whenever they get involved, disasters happen. It's 100%<BR>
demostrable that it simply is *not* their fault. Their actions don't<BR>
cause the disasters, and there's nothing they could have done to<BR>
prevent them. Nonetheless, disasters occur. <BR>
<BR>
A *minor* example was when they were *passing thru* a space station. A<BR>
robbery went bad and one of the crooks accidentaly activated a bomb that<BR>
not merely blew a hole in the hull, it ble it right at an airtight<BR>
bulkhead, thus compromising *two* sections of the station.<BR>
<BR>
This gives the "Lovely Angels" (their code name) the unofficial tag of<BR>
"the Dirty Pair" and means that *nobody* wants to work with them. <BR>
<BR>
Have someone like that following the PCs. Possibly for benign reasons<BR>
(maybe they are shadowing the characters waiting for an old enemy to<BR>
attack them). <BR>
<BR>
The players will go nuts. And just think of the fun if/when they<BR>
determine the *cause*. <BR>
<BR>
Player1: "I'm gonna *kill* those jinxes!"<BR>
Player2: "You can't do that! They work for Imperial Security"<BR>
Player3: "And besides, just imagine what could go wrong if you were<BR>
         *trying* to commit violence in that 'jinx field' of theirs!"<BR>
         <shudder><BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com	<--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com	<--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 01:19:23 EST<BR>
From: DanOwsen@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1355<BR>
<BR>
remove danowsen@aol.com<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:25:54 -0600<BR>
From: "Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net><BR>
Subject: Lost Keith Supplements Arrives<BR>
<BR>
Hi!<BR>
<BR>
Just wanted to report that my copy of the Keith Supplements was<BR>
awaiting me with I got home tonight.  Everything looks wonderful.<BR>
It'll take me time to work my way through all this material, but I'm<BR>
going to enjoy doing it. <g><BR>
<BR>
Eris<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
"Eris Reddoch" <eris@pcola.gulf.net>    using MR/2 ICE #245<BR>
- -----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:56:55 -0800<BR>
From: "Benyamene' ZeAbe' Akella" <xrp@sierratel.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller pronounciation guide<BR>
<BR>
Via electronic medium on 11/16/99 7:27 AM, efritz@GLJA.com wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> JDoch226@aol.com wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> How do you say Efate?  Boughene? Pscias?  Is there a guide to the<BR>
>> pronounciation of system names?<BR>
> <BR>
> The pronounciation of names varies by Traveller universe, and IMTU, varies<BR>
> from<BR>
> person to person. Some species have difficulty pronouncing certain sounds, so<BR>
> there is no standard rule.<BR>
> <BR>
> For me, I say "eefayt", "bogeen" (with a hard G), and "syas". But that's me.<BR>
<BR>
I agree on variation across different regions, and according to species, and<BR>
even have a few alternate pronunciations depending on which character (of<BR>
five *main ones* so far) I'm playing.<BR>
<BR>
Efate: eh-fit, ee-feh-tay<BR>
Boughene: bow-thayn, boo-geen (hard g)<BR>
Psias: si-es (long i, short e)<BR>
<BR>
Of course some worlds vary little in pronunciation, unless the species can't<BR>
make the sounds, like Bronze, Iron, Regina, etc.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:58:55 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
<BR>
>From: Steven Bonneville <bonnevil@ima.umn.edu><BR>
>Subject: Re: That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
...<BR>
>>   If the open airlock shows a 2m high hatch then the ship must be about<BR>
>> 50m across at the mid-point, and 100-130+ long; depending on the overall<BR>
>> shape it should be at least 1500+ Dt; but still too small for a 20KT rider.<BR>
><BR>
>Hm.  I don't have the picture handy, but the ship is a flattened cone with<BR>
>the tip of the cone at the nose, right?  If the beam is about 90 meters at<BR>
>the tail, and the height at the tail is 65 meters, and it's 145 meters long, <BR>
>then I can get just over 280000 cubic meters (20000 dtons).  <BR>
<BR>
  I estimate a tail height less than one-fifth the maximum width, which itself<BR>
may be no more than 75m :(<BR>
<BR>
  OTOH, if it were a rider then where the <bleep> are the weapons?<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
>Subject: Re: That vessel on the SMC cover<BR>
...<BR>
>>   If the open airlock shows a 2m high hatch then the ship must be about<BR>
>> 50m across at the mid-point, and 100-130+ long; depending on the overall<BR>
...<BR>
>What if it's not an airlock, but instead a boat bay door or a lock for <BR>
>large pieces of equipment?<BR>
<BR>
Then the deck crew had best have rocket packs to get over the door sill :> <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:26:30 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Re : Riot Control Agents (was : Anti-Violence groups in the 3I), longish<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Leonard Erickson wrote :-<BR>
>> Spasm[1] loads are going to get<BR>
>> folks *really* upset. Though not as upset as lethal loads.<BR>
>> <BR>
>> [1] for those of you who haven't read the series, they cause a<BR>
>> virtually instant "lock" of all voluntary muscles. It won't kill you,<BR>
>> but it hurts like hell and you need medical care until the effects wear<BR>
>> off (it's a sort of viral effect). It takes about 6 *months* to wear<BR>
>> off.<BR>
><BR>
> Therefore 'Spasm' is a cute drug, but makes very little pharmacological<BR>
> or physiological sense. Consider me one of the upset.<BR>
><BR>
> i. Drugs have to get to their site of action. Usually this is via the<BR>
> circulation, unless the agent is delivered directly.<BR>
>         Combine this with uptake time and you have a delay of at least 30<BR>
> seconds (arm-brain circulation time, with optimised IV medications).<BR>
>         Heck, cyanide will take at least five minutes to kill you (though<BR>
> you're unconscious and fitting within 60 seconds, usually).<BR>
<BR>
Ok, so it isn't "instantly". <BR>
<BR>
> ii. There is no functional difference down to a receptor level between<BR>
> various beds of skeletal (striated) muscle. If the limb muscles are<BR>
> paralysed, then the chest wall and diaphragm will go too.<BR>
>         If these muscles are 'locked', it will become impossible to<BR>
> artificially ventilate the victim with any degree of safety.<BR>
>         (I've been at resucitations like this, folks. They are *scary*).<BR>
>         If you can't breathe or have someone breathe for you, you will almost<BR>
> certainly die. Access to cardiopulmonary bypass (or, in Trav, low<BR>
> berths) isn't guaranteed. Irreparable damage may occur before the<BR>
> subject is ready to go on the pump/in the cooler (though this is less<BR>
> likely with higher TLs).<BR>
<BR>
I know for a *fact* that there are surgical muscle relaxants that *do*<BR>
only effect the "voluntary" muscles. They leave the heart and lungs<BR>
alone. Mind you, I seem to recall that they do this by blocking nerve<BR>
impulses from the spine, rather than by directly affecting the muscles...<BR>
<BR>
>> This makes it an *ideal* military weapon, in that it ties up a maximal<BR>
>> amount of enemy resources in caring for the victim. Yet it's not even<BR>
>> lethal, so you can play things down if you accidentally shoot a few<BR>
>> "innocent bystanders".<BR>
><BR>
> The polio epidemic of the 1950's springs to mind. There were *wards*<BR>
> full of people on 'iron lungs' and pedal powered ventilators all over<BR>
> the developed world.<BR>
><BR>
> Nightmarish stuff. It would only take one riot to overload the critical<BR>
> care facilities of a good sized (pop 3 million+) city at current tech<BR>
> levels.<BR>
>         In a combat situation, a lot of people would die, either from inability<BR>
> to get to them in time, or on the basis of triage (save the 'Spasm'<BR>
> victims or the multi trauma casualties - I assume bombs and<BR>
> bullets/beams would still be used?).<BR>
><BR>
> I don't think 'Spasm' makes a good riot control agent, for the reasons I<BR>
> have touched on above, unless you are uninterested in the survival of<BR>
> the rioters (and part of the plausibility of your narrative). <BR>
> Perhaps the mere threat of its use would prevent riots.<BR>
<BR>
Spasm *wasn't* a riot control agent. It was a load for a very<BR>
specialized weapon. It was *targeted*, not sprayed indiscriminately. <BR>
<BR>
You seem to have rolled the comments on spetsdods (an odd "hand<BR>
weapon") and anti-riot measures into one. They were seperate subjects.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ii. Incapacitating agents<BR>
> - an aerosol sedative ;<BR>
> - an agent to interrupt the motor pathways in such a fashion as to cause<BR>
> transient Parkinsonian motor signs (you can't riot much faster than a<BR>
> slow shuffle and you can't change direction or stop without assistance)<BR>
> i.e. a *very selective* dopamine receptor blocker ;<BR>
> - 'soma', from Huxley's 'Brave New World' ;<BR>
> - descendants of modern agents (e.g. CS) with shorter onset and offset<BR>
> times and fewer spillover side effects.<BR>
> - immobilising foam and slipping agents (which have already been<BR>
> mentioned).<BR>
<BR>
Real world items:<BR>
<BR>
A derivative of one of the high blood pressure meds. It slowly lowers<BR>
your blood pressure. After a while, you get faint if you are standing.<BR>
So you sit down (or fall down) after more time, you are faint even<BR>
sitting up, so you lie down or fall down. Now, you are flat on your<BR>
back, and getting over excited will tend to make you pass out. Now the<BR>
riot police can collect you.<BR>
<BR>
A derivative of that surgical muscle relaxant I mentioned. The effects<BR>
start at the base of the spine and work up. So you lose control of your<BR>
feet and ankles, then of the knees, etc, until you are effectively a<BR>
(temporary) quadraplegic. Again, at this point the police wander over<BR>
and pick you up. <BR>
<BR>
Supposedly both of these are hard to administer overdoses of, and have<BR>
limited effects (ie the blood pressure won't drop too low, and the<BR>
"nerve block" stops before it gets too high up the spine).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:23:51 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I...<BR>
<BR>
>From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
>Subject: Re: Arts and Culture in and around 3I AND X-Files scenarios in Trav<BR>
...<BR>
>Also see "The Circus" from E. E. "Doc" Smith's "Family d'Alembert" series:<BR>
...<BR>
>In terms of the nobility and empire background, the series is very<BR>
>Traveller-esque - or maybe Trav was influenced by this series? The nobility<BR>
<BR>
  Trav predates that series, AFAIK (which was also very heavily contributed<BR>
to by a co-author whose names escapes me - Goldin?).<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 16 Nov 1999 23:24:52 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Starship Disabling Weapons<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Legate Legion" <legate@futureone.com><BR>
>Subject: Starship Disabling Weapons<BR>
...<BR>
>    Would you use an Ionic Weapon?  Or a Mazer?<BR>
<BR>
  Isn't the former a PAW to the non-SW crew?<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:31:48 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: some thoughts about racing<BR>
<BR>
>From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net><BR>
>Subject: Re: some thoughts about racing<BR>
...<BR>
>Any such technical problems for traveller?  Precise jump exiting? Exiting<BR>
>closer to way points?<BR>
<BR>
  If one wants to follow Triplanetary (and of course, one does :> ), then<BR>
real racers would use ion drives - low thrust, high-fuel efficiency for<BR>
those _long_ races. And then you could simulate Triplanetary one turn of<BR>
double thrust to represent a long burn over the drives safe on-line duration,<BR>
to be followed by maintenance before being allowed again.<BR>
<BR>
  You could also have crew aboard to perform that maintenance to allow<BR>
multiple long burns during a single leg of a race; a crit failure on <BR>
the relevant skill roll might mean that the drive may remain off-line<BR>
totally for one turn.<BR>
<BR>
  If other crew have roles (no/minimal computers means that you want a<BR>
navigator, or all skills are penalized if performing multiple roles),<BR>
then the designer also needs to decide between having lots of crew, or<BR>
getting more reaction mass into the tanks.<BR>
<BR>
  Given that a very small crew may be highly over-worked - making the<BR>
race a matter of skill, design, and the endurance of both the ship and<BR>
its complement - we can only await FS chemical amplification programs,<BR>
or the Sayat's ever so loosely-interpreted definition of "design/ship/<BR>
abominations-of-genetic-engineering".<BR>
<BR>
        Steven Hudson<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:46:11 +0000<BR>
From: Timothy.Collinson@solent.ac.uk<BR>
Subject: Re: New BITS product hinted at<BR>
<BR>
>> Sources close to the BITS Director suggest that the Penguin throwing<BR>
>> supplement may well be ready for press very soon.<BR>
<BR>
>_101 Ballistic Flightless Birds_, actually, which will feature thrown<BR>
>penguins along with catapulted ostriches, dropped emus, hurled dodos, and<BR>
>so forth.<BR>
<BR>
>> Along with a list of books and magazines (okay tc!) and some Patrons.<BR>
<BR>
>Patron 102:<BR>
<BR>
>A nervous-looking man approaches the party in a quiet section of the<BR>
>starport.  He is leading a 70cm tall penguin on a thin leash.  After<BR>
>glancing around to be sure he's not overheard, he offers the party Cr 100<BR>
>to throw the penguin.  Before anyone has time to answer, his eyes widen in<BR>
>panic; he hands the leash to one of the party (dropping it if they refuse<BR>
>to take it) and departs at a run.  The penguin stands calmly.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<snip 6 hysterical possibilities><BR>
<BR>
Stop, please stop.  My colleague is in the office with me and I'm<BR>
desperately trying to split my sides quietly.  I mean, how would *you*<BR>
explain the above!<BR>
<BR>
I look forward to adding 101 BFB to any further editions of the<BR>
bibliography.  ;-)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
tc<BR>
<BR>
PS regarding another thread entirely: I've just been told about a friend<BR>
who is taking 6 months unpaid leave to visit New Zealand.  That'd be a fair<BR>
few jumps worth from home.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 17 Nov 1999 02:46:14 -0800<BR>
From: "Glenn M. Goffin" <gmgoffin@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: Traveller pronounciation<BR>
<BR>
> From: Ian Ferguson <ian@vax2.concordia.ca><BR>
<BR>
> Jed Docherty writes:<BR>
> >How do you say Efate?  Boughene? Pscias?<BR>
<BR>
Efate is an island in the South Pacific, where it is pronounced eff ART<BR>
ee<BR>
Boughene I haven't figured out.  I usually say boog hwen ("e" like the<BR>
"a" in tame).<BR>
I say p'shias -- the p is just touched.<BR>
<BR>
- --Glenn<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1356<BR>
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